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	<title>Comments on: Where do you buy your ESL books?</title>
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	<link>http://www.talktotheclouds.com/2008/05/12/where-do-you-buy-your-esl-books/</link>
	<description>Teaching, speaking, reading, pondering English</description>
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		<title>By: Clarissa</title>
		<link>http://www.talktotheclouds.com/2008/05/12/where-do-you-buy-your-esl-books/comment-page-1/#comment-23941</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Apr 2010 21:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talktotheclouds.com/?p=24#comment-23941</guid>
		<description>Yeah, it&#039;s pretty rare to find decent ESL books at secondhand stores. It still really irks me that Half-Price Books conflates ASL and ESL, but I&#039;m glad that Book Buyers carries ESL books. It&#039;s pretty nice. Major bookstore chains in Japan and Korea, as far as I understand, carry ESL books, including graded readers, which makes me jealous. I would LOVE to be able to tell my students to go to even a single spinner rack full of graded readers and buy them, and I think they would. I thought US bookstore chains had some regional variation in what they carried, so you&#039;d think they could manage to do that for their major metro areas. But maybe not. :/ I sometimes toy with the idea of opening a bookstore that both teachers and learners could use, but with the overhead involved, it just wouldn&#039;t be a good idea. Teachers here were so sad when Alta closed to the public; it can be really hard to tell if a book is worth buying from an Amazon review or catalog description. (I once wound up with an international business English book that had only white male businessperson characters; all the administrative assistants were female, and nobody was ever depicted speaking English in it who was not white. It was totally bizarre, like something from the 1950s)

Anyway, yeah, it really depends on your situation! And hurray for you for reviewing things on Amazon--there are not enough people doing so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, it&#8217;s pretty rare to find decent ESL books at secondhand stores. It still really irks me that Half-Price Books conflates ASL and ESL, but I&#8217;m glad that Book Buyers carries ESL books. It&#8217;s pretty nice. Major bookstore chains in Japan and Korea, as far as I understand, carry ESL books, including graded readers, which makes me jealous. I would LOVE to be able to tell my students to go to even a single spinner rack full of graded readers and buy them, and I think they would. I thought US bookstore chains had some regional variation in what they carried, so you&#8217;d think they could manage to do that for their major metro areas. But maybe not. :/ I sometimes toy with the idea of opening a bookstore that both teachers and learners could use, but with the overhead involved, it just wouldn&#8217;t be a good idea. Teachers here were so sad when Alta closed to the public; it can be really hard to tell if a book is worth buying from an Amazon review or catalog description. (I once wound up with an international business English book that had only white male businessperson characters; all the administrative assistants were female, and nobody was ever depicted speaking English in it who was not white. It was totally bizarre, like something from the 1950s)</p>
<p>Anyway, yeah, it really depends on your situation! And hurray for you for reviewing things on Amazon&#8211;there are not enough people doing so.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Roth</title>
		<link>http://www.talktotheclouds.com/2008/05/12/where-do-you-buy-your-esl-books/comment-page-1/#comment-22984</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Roth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Apr 2010 07:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talktotheclouds.com/?p=24#comment-22984</guid>
		<description>Great question! 

While I usually buy books at CATESOL or TESOL conferences, I often use Amazon since they have a very large collection of both new and used books. Because I sometimes also post reviews on Amazon and teach at a major university, I often get new titles sent to me as exam copies - and that is always nice. I&#039;ve seldom had luck with the major chain bookstores which surprises me given the number of English language learners in Los Angeles, and have only once found a quality ESL book at a second hand store.

The situation, however, was the exact opposite when I taught in Vietnam last year. There I could only buy books directly from a handful of publishers with slimmed-down (censored) selections and at the one major ELT conference. Ironically, the chain bookstore there (Fahasa) had rows and rows of EFL books. It took me a few visits to recognize amidst the huge diversity of options, however, that almost the entire collection was composed of grammar, vocabulary, and test-prep books. (Novels, short stories, and readers were all in very short supply - along with writing and speaking materials). In that still closed society where mail often doesn&#039;t arrive, I also discovered the advantages of ebooks. 

Bottomline: I&#039;ve had to adopt very different hunting strategies for quality ESL and EFL books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great question! </p>
<p>While I usually buy books at CATESOL or TESOL conferences, I often use Amazon since they have a very large collection of both new and used books. Because I sometimes also post reviews on Amazon and teach at a major university, I often get new titles sent to me as exam copies &#8211; and that is always nice. I&#8217;ve seldom had luck with the major chain bookstores which surprises me given the number of English language learners in Los Angeles, and have only once found a quality ESL book at a second hand store.</p>
<p>The situation, however, was the exact opposite when I taught in Vietnam last year. There I could only buy books directly from a handful of publishers with slimmed-down (censored) selections and at the one major ELT conference. Ironically, the chain bookstore there (Fahasa) had rows and rows of EFL books. It took me a few visits to recognize amidst the huge diversity of options, however, that almost the entire collection was composed of grammar, vocabulary, and test-prep books. (Novels, short stories, and readers were all in very short supply &#8211; along with writing and speaking materials). In that still closed society where mail often doesn&#8217;t arrive, I also discovered the advantages of ebooks. </p>
<p>Bottomline: I&#8217;ve had to adopt very different hunting strategies for quality ESL and EFL books.</p>
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		<title>By: Clarissa</title>
		<link>http://www.talktotheclouds.com/2008/05/12/where-do-you-buy-your-esl-books/comment-page-1/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 05:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talktotheclouds.com/?p=24#comment-23</guid>
		<description>D&#039;oh! I changed it--thanks for the tip!

Well, I really do want to write a whole post about this series, but yes, the vocabulary is chosen deliberately. According to the teacher&#039;s guide, there is &quot;contextualisation and recycling of new words&quot; and &quot;the vocabulary at each level is established by reference to recent corpus-based lexical research, analysis of commonly-occurring words in course materials and readers, and the Council of Europe’s Waystage and Threshold levels.&quot; And of course Cambridge owns one of the major English-language corpora. 

The books also use grammatical grading to gradually work through various grammatical structures. Specific structures are listed in the free teacher&#039;s guide PDF on the website ( http://www.cambridge.org/elt/readers/teachers_guide.htm ). It&#039;s too bad (for my students) that they have fairly few American English books on offer right now, but they&#039;re increasing those.

However, I think the most important pedagogical underpinning is that interesting reading is more useful than boring reading! Ahem. (Seriously, though. Having sequenced vocabulary is useless if the students quit halfway through the first book.)

I know, it&#039;s been a long week here too! Hang in there. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D&#8217;oh! I changed it&#8211;thanks for the tip!</p>
<p>Well, I really do want to write a whole post about this series, but yes, the vocabulary is chosen deliberately. According to the teacher&#8217;s guide, there is &#8220;contextualisation and recycling of new words&#8221; and &#8220;the vocabulary at each level is established by reference to recent corpus-based lexical research, analysis of commonly-occurring words in course materials and readers, and the Council of Europe’s Waystage and Threshold levels.&#8221; And of course Cambridge owns one of the major English-language corpora. </p>
<p>The books also use grammatical grading to gradually work through various grammatical structures. Specific structures are listed in the free teacher&#8217;s guide PDF on the website ( <a href="http://www.cambridge.org/elt/readers/teachers_guide.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.cambridge.org/elt/readers/teachers_guide.htm</a> ). It&#8217;s too bad (for my students) that they have fairly few American English books on offer right now, but they&#8217;re increasing those.</p>
<p>However, I think the most important pedagogical underpinning is that interesting reading is more useful than boring reading! Ahem. (Seriously, though. Having sequenced vocabulary is useless if the students quit halfway through the first book.)</p>
<p>I know, it&#8217;s been a long week here too! Hang in there. <img src='http://www.talktotheclouds.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Clay Burell</title>
		<link>http://www.talktotheclouds.com/2008/05/12/where-do-you-buy-your-esl-books/comment-page-1/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Clay Burell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 03:57:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talktotheclouds.com/?p=24#comment-22</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the feedback, &quot;admin.&quot; (You can change that in your profile somewhere if you want, that admin name :P  )  

I&#039;m being lazy, but the question may add value to this thread for later readers. It&#039;s this: Do the Cambridge Readers use anything like Nation&#039;s 2.000 Most Frequent Words in English - I&#039;ve forgotten the exact name of this, but you know what I mean - or any other method of introducing the essential high-frequency vocab in a graduated manner?

That&#039;s what I like about the Longman/Penguin approach: the linguistic analysis of contemporary word frequency informs its framework.

Yuck, I hate my own language in this comment, but it&#039;s Friday, I&#039;m at school and zapped. Forgive it.

Simply put: what&#039;s the pedagogical / SLA underpinning of the Cambridge series?

Sheesh, Clay, take a nap.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the feedback, &#8220;admin.&#8221; (You can change that in your profile somewhere if you want, that admin name <img src='http://www.talktotheclouds.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' />   )  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m being lazy, but the question may add value to this thread for later readers. It&#8217;s this: Do the Cambridge Readers use anything like Nation&#8217;s 2.000 Most Frequent Words in English &#8211; I&#8217;ve forgotten the exact name of this, but you know what I mean &#8211; or any other method of introducing the essential high-frequency vocab in a graduated manner?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s what I like about the Longman/Penguin approach: the linguistic analysis of contemporary word frequency informs its framework.</p>
<p>Yuck, I hate my own language in this comment, but it&#8217;s Friday, I&#8217;m at school and zapped. Forgive it.</p>
<p>Simply put: what&#8217;s the pedagogical / SLA underpinning of the Cambridge series?</p>
<p>Sheesh, Clay, take a nap.</p>
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		<title>By: Clay Burell</title>
		<link>http://www.talktotheclouds.com/2008/05/12/where-do-you-buy-your-esl-books/comment-page-1/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Clay Burell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 06:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talktotheclouds.com/?p=24#comment-19</guid>
		<description>Apropos of nothing in particular, it occurs to me that you might enjoy a weird debate on a monster comment thread on this post: &lt;a href=&quot;http://beyond-school.org/2008/04/27/muhammad-ali-a-d-student-in-an-f-school/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Muhammad Ali: D- Student? or F- School?&lt;/a&gt;.

Really no self-promo intended here. Just an invitation to some pretty interesting viewpoints (and a cool talk with a Norwegian guy about ELL and technology toward the end). 

C.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apropos of nothing in particular, it occurs to me that you might enjoy a weird debate on a monster comment thread on this post: <a href="http://beyond-school.org/2008/04/27/muhammad-ali-a-d-student-in-an-f-school/" rel="nofollow">Muhammad Ali: D- Student? or F- School?</a>.</p>
<p>Really no self-promo intended here. Just an invitation to some pretty interesting viewpoints (and a cool talk with a Norwegian guy about ELL and technology toward the end). </p>
<p>C.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.talktotheclouds.com/2008/05/12/where-do-you-buy-your-esl-books/comment-page-1/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 06:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talktotheclouds.com/?p=24#comment-18</guid>
		<description>Hmm, the last time I was in Shanghai was 1999, and I had no plans to teach English then! I&#039;ll have to go there if I&#039;m ever there again.

The big difference between the recent Cambridge readers and the Penguin/Longman readers that I looked at is that the Cambridge books are original fiction written with ELL readers in mind. The language is fairly lively given the restraints, and the stories are engaging. The Penguin/Longman ones that I&#039;ve seen were mostly retellings of classics or contemporary bestsellers, and had all life sucked out of them. I mean, with Jane Austen and Oscar Wilde, etc., a lot of the interest for a reader comes from the wonderful use of language. Just stripping that out and relating the plot in words of two syllables or less doesn&#039;t leave much for a reader to enjoy. The IEP I worked at had a cabinet full of these, and the students hated them. They had trouble relating to the historic settings for the classics, too. 

So far all of the clients I&#039;ve lent Cambridge readers to have enjoyed them. I actually found the first one I tried, which I was given at TESOL last year, to be interesting enough that I read the whole thing myself. Yes, it was simple, but the stories were fairly involving (they were Twilight Zone/O. Henry-like). With the Penguin readers, I gave up in boredom after about three pages. 

I know some people really like Penguin/Longman, and maybe I need to give them another try. We should have a Graded Readers Cage Match once I get enough readers and commenters!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, the last time I was in Shanghai was 1999, and I had no plans to teach English then! I&#8217;ll have to go there if I&#8217;m ever there again.</p>
<p>The big difference between the recent Cambridge readers and the Penguin/Longman readers that I looked at is that the Cambridge books are original fiction written with ELL readers in mind. The language is fairly lively given the restraints, and the stories are engaging. The Penguin/Longman ones that I&#8217;ve seen were mostly retellings of classics or contemporary bestsellers, and had all life sucked out of them. I mean, with Jane Austen and Oscar Wilde, etc., a lot of the interest for a reader comes from the wonderful use of language. Just stripping that out and relating the plot in words of two syllables or less doesn&#8217;t leave much for a reader to enjoy. The IEP I worked at had a cabinet full of these, and the students hated them. They had trouble relating to the historic settings for the classics, too. </p>
<p>So far all of the clients I&#8217;ve lent Cambridge readers to have enjoyed them. I actually found the first one I tried, which I was given at TESOL last year, to be interesting enough that I read the whole thing myself. Yes, it was simple, but the stories were fairly involving (they were Twilight Zone/O. Henry-like). With the Penguin readers, I gave up in boredom after about three pages. </p>
<p>I know some people really like Penguin/Longman, and maybe I need to give them another try. We should have a Graded Readers Cage Match once I get enough readers and commenters!</p>
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		<title>By: Clay Burell</title>
		<link>http://www.talktotheclouds.com/2008/05/12/where-do-you-buy-your-esl-books/comment-page-1/#comment-17</link>
		<dc:creator>Clay Burell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 05:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.talktotheclouds.com/?p=24#comment-17</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ll love/hate me for this hot tip:

If you&#039;re ever in Shanghai (I lived there from &#039;01-&#039;06), go to the Foreign Language Bookstore downtown. Since it&#039;s China, English is a foreign language there ;)

You&#039;ll find INCREDIBLE savings - 10% of list price - on EFL pedagogy and research books from Cambridge, Oxford, etc. AND you&#039;ll find all the Penguin/Longman Readers and their competitors.

Question: Why do you prefer the Cambridge Readers (implicitly) over the Longman series?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ll love/hate me for this hot tip:</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re ever in Shanghai (I lived there from &#8217;01-&#8217;06), go to the Foreign Language Bookstore downtown. Since it&#8217;s China, English is a foreign language there <img src='http://www.talktotheclouds.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>You&#8217;ll find INCREDIBLE savings &#8211; 10% of list price &#8211; on EFL pedagogy and research books from Cambridge, Oxford, etc. AND you&#8217;ll find all the Penguin/Longman Readers and their competitors.</p>
<p>Question: Why do you prefer the Cambridge Readers (implicitly) over the Longman series?</p>
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